Justine

How did you get into editing and what was that journey like for you?

Cate

I've always been interested in editing, but getting to New York in my 20s just wasn't possible financially, so I initially took the teaching route. It was a great decision at the time, but in my late 30s I decided to go back for a second MFA in creative nonfiction. The program I attended required you to do an internship or an outside experience, and I decided to try for an internship with a literary agency to see if the publishing world was really for me.

I was fortunate to get an amazing, remote internship with the Carol Mann Agency. It was definitely competitive to get in. I had to do some serious reading and writing so that they knew I could do the work. Once they saw that I was more than capable, they started handing me harder projects and I started to do more developmental editing on projects that needed extra attention. I even got to learn how to write pitch letters to editors. Even though I wasn't in New York, the work felt really fulfilling and I had a fantastic time. That was my first step into editing.

Then my position in higher-ed unfortunately got eliminated as many do, and I decided, “Okay, let's try to get into publishing.”

My internship with the Carol Mann Agency is really what enabled me to stand out from the crowd of applicants that were applying to UNC Press at the time. They loved that I'd done developmental editing. In their minds, I was a jack of all trades and could pretty much do anything they needed me to do. They hired me, and I’m still with UNC Press to this day.

Justine

Was the Carol Mann Agency internship a paid or an unpaid Internship?

Cate

It was unpaid, and the only reason I could do it was because I was still teaching and had my summers off. I did 20 hours of unpaid labor a week for a whole summer. But I think the internship structure has been changing. When I started  at UNC Press internships were unpaid, and I worked really hard to get across the point that this wasn’t sustainable or equitable. The leadership really listened, and now we pay all of our interns. I know a lot has shifted with regards to this in New York as well, at least in the last ten years or so.  

Justine

In addition to being an editor, you are also a writer. How does your life as a writer factor into your work as an editor?

Cate

I think the main thing is compassion. When you're a writer, you understand how hard the act of writing can be, how much work goes into it, how much blood, sweat and tears. I'm very aware that authors need a lot of support. They need a cheerleader, but they also need somebody to hold them to deadlines. For me, all of that really goes into treating people with respect and kindness, and being heavy with them when they want me to be. At the end of the day, everybody's different.

I've also learned to meet people where they are, to ask them what they need and how I can best support them. The editing path is not “one size fits all.” You can't treat every author the same way, and just as I would hope that an editor who's working with me wouldn't see my work as a cookie cutter product, I try to work with each author and their work as an individual.

I think another benefit of being a writer and an editor is that I really understand structure. It is something I learned through my MFA programs, and I've worked on structure a lot in my own writing. There’s a benefit to being able to see different structural possibilities and understanding larger stories in the universe. Because yes, every story has already been told, but you can tell it in a new way. Structure is one of the coolest ways to do this, so being able to apply that to my work as an editor and help authors see different alternatives for structures has been really helpful.

Justine

What are the benefits that writers get from working with a smaller press like UNC Press versus going with, say, “the big five”?

Cate

UNC Press publishes three different kinds of books: academic, mid-list (academic books that also have some crossover appeal to a general audience), and trade books—this last category is where we’re trying to reach a general readership and break into areas that sometimes compete with “the big five.”

Now, I have not worked for a big five publisher so I can't speak for them, but a smaller  publisher can often offer a more boutique experience. We're not trying to push through as many books all at the same time. A smaller press doesn't have a Prince Harry memoir to edit and market in a way that it sells so much it can cover the costs of all the smaller books.

That being said, smaller presses certainly have some books that are going to have a higher profile and a higher marketing budget than others. But in general, I feel like every book I work on gets the attention that it deserves, as opposed to getting lost in the shuffle because it’s not Prince Harry.

Justine

That seems to go back to your point about compassion, because, at least to me, an author trusting you with their book can really be trusting you with their heart and soul.

Cate

Yes, I think there is some responsibility on the publishing side to take that into account. The hardest part about working as an editor is that it's a business. I do have a quota of books that I have to sign to contract every year, and then somehow I have to make time to also support all of those authors every year.

There is a lot of pressure even in a place like UNC Press, despite the fact that we are smaller. It’s a hard balance of making sure that I am doing everything with compassion, while at the same making good decisions for myself so that I can get the work done.

To be honest, I don’t think being an editor is for the faint of heart. There is so much to juggle, and I'm a type A personality—-I want to do the best for all of my authors every single time. Unfortunately, I sometimes can't do as much for them as I would ideally want to. Instead of doing four or five edits on a manuscript, I might only be able to do two.

Justine

Many writers have the dream of working a job that supports their writing—paying the bills, and also giving them ample time to write. From your experience, how does that dynamic play out between editing and writing?

Cate

It’s not easy. If I really want to write, I have to get up at 5 in the morning to do it. That definitely does not happen every day!

I will say that working in higher ed gave me a lot more time to write. My schedule was a lot more flexible, and I had summers and really long winter breaks. Also, as a teacher, publishing was a part of what was expected from me. When I was writing, I knew that I was advancing my career at the same time.

On the flip side, with my editing job, I don't have to write to advance. My writing and publication record has nothing to do with it. It's just my art. So making time for it is definitely a challenge. I'm also a single mom of two kids, and the pressures and time demands of that make it really challenging. For anybody who decides to be a parent, have a partner, or if they really want to have a social life—-all of these things take time away from writing.

My advice is to decide what you want and when, and to know what you are willing to sacrifice to get your art done. It’s not a fun choice.

Justine

Do you feel like you still identify as a writer?

Cate

I do. I still have a project that I'm working on in the background. Even if I don't touch it every single week, I'm thinking about it, I'm jotting down notes. It's just a lot slower than I'd like it to be.

Justine

We're living in a time where on one side, we have books being banned and on the other side, we have books and authors being canceled. What role does the publishing industry play in all this? And what is the responsibility of people who have roles in that industry—the so-called “gatekeepers”?

Cate

Oh my gosh, that’s a huge question. We could talk about this for days. Obviously yes, publishers are gatekeepers by their very definition. At UNC Press, we're very aware of that.. That’s part of the reason why we started Great Circle, which is for emerging literary nonfiction authors who aren't traditionally part of the publishing landscape. We also have a manuscript lab for people whose proposals might not be ready, and we tutor them in how to make their proposals better so they have a better shot at making it into the publishing world.

I have seen other presses starting to do the same thing, asking questions like: How do we support writers who aren't traditionally part of this landscape? How do we act less as gatekeepers and more as supporters?

That’s the positive side, and it’s definitely in the cultural conversation—the publishing industry has even started to put out some books about that very kind of gatekeeping, like R. F. Huang’s Yellowface.

As far as the banning of books and cancel culture, the publishers I know still want to put out the best literature and scholarship possible without fear of that pushback. Whether a book gets canceled or banned, those are not forces that publishers can really control.

I’m really pleased that I work for a press that is very open-minded, and we are lucky that we have an independent board of governors here—-they're the ones who approve the books we publish. It means that we are not beholden to a larger system. Our board also trusts us as editors to lift up the most important conversations of the day and not to discriminate based on a book’s perspective. We want to be in dialogue with the most important ideas that are out there.

Justine

What are some things that writers can do to have the best chance of their manuscript being accepted by a press?

Cate

The first thing people need to do is read the submission instructions on the website, because every single press or agent has different desires as far as what they want. What I really love is when somebody sends me a clear, concise pitch and they attach a good proposal.

It's difficult to evaluate a full manuscript because they are so long and an editor’s time is so limited. So if we really like the pitch and the email, and we really like the proposal, then we'll ask for the full manuscript. But just sending a full manuscript with no proposal is really, for us at least, not ideal.

From what I’ve seen, most agents do something similar, often asking for a pitch and the first three essays or the first three chapters. Why? Because their time is limited too. The other thing that people really need to have is an extremely strong email pitch. It needs to be short, because editors only have about 30 seconds to read an email and make a decision. A good format is:

Here's the basic plot summary

Here’s why this book matters now

Here’s who it's gonna reach.

Your platform

If those things aren't there and a writer can't articulate why and how their book matters in this moment, basically what that tells the editor or agent is that the writer doesn’t understand the business of publishing and they don't understand that the book has to sell. And that sounds harsh, but publishing is a business, and it’s what pays my bills.

Justine

When you talk about an author’s platform, what do you mean specifically?

Cate

Having a platform means that you already have a name for yourself and have a built-in readership that you can fall back on. It’s a way to say, “I'm in demand. I really connect with audiences. These are the contacts I have.” For most writers who are not at that level, the best thing they can do is have a professional-looking website. It can be very simple, but there needs to be links to their work and a way to contact them.

My advice to writers is to also choose one type of social media that you love and do it well. You don’t have to do them all. If you love Instagram, build your following on Instagram and just be who you are. Don't try to be somebody else.

Platform and social media are a little bit different. For example, if you’re a musician, your music is your platform–the thing that “raises” you into recognition, and it’s the thing an audience knows you for. Social media is a tool to keep that platform interesting and relevant, to keep an artist connected to the audience that knows and loves their work.

Justine

So it seems that when it comes to a platform or social media, the important thing is to be able to see that the author is serious about the job and identity of being an author.

Cate

Exactly. And one last thing—publishers are looking for authors who are going to be good business partners. The world of book reviews has shrunk exponentially in the last few years, so now what publishers really need are authors who already have built-in readerships, already have built-in connections to places that can review their work.

Most publicists already have connections to those places, but if the authors also have inside people or knowledge, there's a greater chance that that book is actually going to get picked up for review. I tell authors all the time—as much as you are writing, you need to be networking. And that might sound gross, but it doesn’t have to be. Go to conferences, meet people, stay in touch, take every opportunity that's open to you. And when you go to parties, try not to be a wallflower. Try to go around, introduce yourself and see who you can meet. Sometimes those random connections end up being some of the strongest.

The other really good thing people can do is write thank you notes to authors they love. I have an author right now who wrote a note to an author, Emma, whose book she read and which really helped her rethink what she was writing. They had a nice email exchange.

When this author's book got picked up by UNC Press and we were thinking about blurbs, the author we were working with wrote to Emma. It turns out she is also a columnist at The Guardian, and she asked our author to send her the book.

Emma was so blown away that she sent the book up the chain to the reviews and first serial people. Now this author is going to have a four-page spread in the Saturday edition of The Guardian—all because she sent a thank you note a few years ago.

Justine

All because of one connection. It’s personal.

Cate

It's very personal. Even if you’re not a super social person, those random acts of kindness can do so much.

Justine

What advice would you give to people who want to enter into the publishing industry?

Cate

Internships, absolutely. They can be hard to find and hard to get into, but if you can find ways to make friends with someone at a press, develop a connection, that’s an amazing way to create opportunities. And after you meet someone, send a follow-up note or email. Attach your resume and ask them to keep you in mind if anything comes up. It’s very difficult to break into publishing if you haven’t had an internship, because there is really no degree to prepare you for all the aspects of publishing. Internships are a great way to qualify yourself.

Feeling inspired to try and land an internship? Check out these opportunities:

• Red Hen Press
• Graywolf Press
• Penguin Random House
• HarperCollins
• Tin House
• Geist
• Copper Canyon Press
• ECW Press
• Grove Atlantic
• Dzanc Books
• Soho Press
• Or Books
• The New Press
• CLMP
• IPG
• Kore Press
• Three Rooms Press
• Brain Mill Press

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